and everyone started having a sane discussion...
hope fully this would help
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cissop.html
Read couple of pages forward....thanks Ramba
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cis-sop-aos/1-16.html
According to this manual..visa availability is determined by Visa bulletin ALONE..no where it mentions to look for an interin memo from INS..
hope fully this would help
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cissop.html
Read couple of pages forward....thanks Ramba
http://www.imminfo.com/resources/cis-sop-aos/1-16.html
According to this manual..visa availability is determined by Visa bulletin ALONE..no where it mentions to look for an interin memo from INS..
wallpaper Budget hotels France
I believe there were some junkies called Left were holding the Govt and MMS as hostages.... Thats why there is no reform...
snathan....do you really believe MMS runs the govt on his own? Do you really think there is no interference of any family in the decision making? Our PM, MMS in the last 5 years never visited all the states in the country. He never established contact with aam aadmi. MMS needs certificate from Rahul Gandhi that he is doing a good job. The person who has self respect will never become PM in these circumstances. MMS is holding PM's chair until Rahul Gandhi becomes "mature" enough to rule..yes rule..because this family has always ruled the nation and never governed it.
No person with self respect will ever vote for this party and their chaprasis.
snathan....do you really believe MMS runs the govt on his own? Do you really think there is no interference of any family in the decision making? Our PM, MMS in the last 5 years never visited all the states in the country. He never established contact with aam aadmi. MMS needs certificate from Rahul Gandhi that he is doing a good job. The person who has self respect will never become PM in these circumstances. MMS is holding PM's chair until Rahul Gandhi becomes "mature" enough to rule..yes rule..because this family has always ruled the nation and never governed it.
No person with self respect will ever vote for this party and their chaprasis.
For most of the ppl with hateful comments, Reality sucks and bites back. I agree with dilip and unfortunately, among billions voices and opinions dont matter. Just brutal personal attacks.
That said. We cant stop the outsourcing and dumping. Today is biilions from India and china and tomorrow rest of billions from rest of world (like Africa and rest).
If you dont have any proper counter argument, dont post. Period, dont stoop to personal attack.(race,caste,place and commutiy and alma mater).
Grow up folks.
As the saying goes, there are two sides to a coin, and there is definitely some truth in the counter arguments. There are quite a few blood sucking desi consulting cos out there, and those need to be cleansed out to protect our own country men from exploitation.
Coming to the point of GC, it is the US gov that gave H1B and invited these people to come and work here to support its companies. At that point, it did not apply country quota. Now when it comes to adjudicating GCs, this unfair concept exists. The process should be unifiorm and fair. If GC and citizenship needs per country quota, so does H1B. Keep everyone at the same level. How is someone from a non retrogressed country more worthy to US than his counterpart from a retrogressed country.
We cannot change what had already happened, and fortunately or unfortunately, we are here looking to have our future in this country. We also need a clear path to immigration. I think it is the moral responsibility of the US gov to show us just that. If the US gov wants to protect the jobs for its citizens, one cannot blame it, but dont let the L1s and H1Bs that you had already brought in years ago to rot in retrogression. After all, these guys also have a family and a career to take care of.
The point I am trying to make is, let us not get into arguments that take us nowhere. Let us rather focus on newer ideas to make our voices heard. Let this forum serve its purpose.
That said. We cant stop the outsourcing and dumping. Today is biilions from India and china and tomorrow rest of billions from rest of world (like Africa and rest).
If you dont have any proper counter argument, dont post. Period, dont stoop to personal attack.(race,caste,place and commutiy and alma mater).
Grow up folks.
As the saying goes, there are two sides to a coin, and there is definitely some truth in the counter arguments. There are quite a few blood sucking desi consulting cos out there, and those need to be cleansed out to protect our own country men from exploitation.
Coming to the point of GC, it is the US gov that gave H1B and invited these people to come and work here to support its companies. At that point, it did not apply country quota. Now when it comes to adjudicating GCs, this unfair concept exists. The process should be unifiorm and fair. If GC and citizenship needs per country quota, so does H1B. Keep everyone at the same level. How is someone from a non retrogressed country more worthy to US than his counterpart from a retrogressed country.
We cannot change what had already happened, and fortunately or unfortunately, we are here looking to have our future in this country. We also need a clear path to immigration. I think it is the moral responsibility of the US gov to show us just that. If the US gov wants to protect the jobs for its citizens, one cannot blame it, but dont let the L1s and H1Bs that you had already brought in years ago to rot in retrogression. After all, these guys also have a family and a career to take care of.
The point I am trying to make is, let us not get into arguments that take us nowhere. Let us rather focus on newer ideas to make our voices heard. Let this forum serve its purpose.
2011 dresses Grand Prix of France
Well - world is definitely a beautiful place. World is beautiful because of beautiful good people. Like there is a saying "How is house different from a home? House maybe be beatiful and big but it is a home ONLY if it is a happy place to live" and making the world our home lies in how we make sure that it is a happy place to live.
While your approach towards solving the problems is "education" in my opinion education does help, but that is NOT the only factor. Change happens gradually. Don't we all agree that the most educated people might be the biggest "problem creators"
WRT snathan - he is a personal friend and I know him. He is sympathetic towards poor and downtrodden and wants to fight against injustice etc.....
To snathan - to understand things in a better perspective, I recommend that you try this. Invite 30 hungry, poor, starving people to your house and provide them with food, education, good life and ask them to seek opportunities to better themselves. You may face the following
(1) People may get more demanding
(2) They may fight among themselves
(3) Some might steal from you
(4) Some might get into unethical activities
(5) Some might disrespect you and step over you
(6) They may show more respect to those who did not care for them and curse you for some silly reason.
You might find some good people who really do what you intend them to do.
Why I say this is - there is no GOOD POOR MAN nor BAD RICH MAN - different people behave different in different circumstances.
Did you know that India's independence struggle, American civil liberty struggle were all funded by rich businessmen - they trusted the leaders and gave a lot of money for campaigns for them to be successful.
--- Do these things or ASK our SRK/Politicians/Business Tycoons to do -----
When I say education, you can not just isolate it from mother tree. It is root of the tree... all the branches grow from there...
Like you said give education for those 30 children born from today and come back after 20 years.. see how their lives would be different for better then those 30 unfortunate children who are unable to have education.
Give education for an entire generation of kids for 20 years....and let them figure out their problems...don't just feed them, don't just build homes for them...don't need to solve the problems for them.. let them figure out... that is what going on in USA.
You can not tie INDIA and USA together.... all you are doing is comparing apples to oranges... don't do that...India needs to learn sooooo many things from countries like USA... not comparing to them.
While your approach towards solving the problems is "education" in my opinion education does help, but that is NOT the only factor. Change happens gradually. Don't we all agree that the most educated people might be the biggest "problem creators"
WRT snathan - he is a personal friend and I know him. He is sympathetic towards poor and downtrodden and wants to fight against injustice etc.....
To snathan - to understand things in a better perspective, I recommend that you try this. Invite 30 hungry, poor, starving people to your house and provide them with food, education, good life and ask them to seek opportunities to better themselves. You may face the following
(1) People may get more demanding
(2) They may fight among themselves
(3) Some might steal from you
(4) Some might get into unethical activities
(5) Some might disrespect you and step over you
(6) They may show more respect to those who did not care for them and curse you for some silly reason.
You might find some good people who really do what you intend them to do.
Why I say this is - there is no GOOD POOR MAN nor BAD RICH MAN - different people behave different in different circumstances.
Did you know that India's independence struggle, American civil liberty struggle were all funded by rich businessmen - they trusted the leaders and gave a lot of money for campaigns for them to be successful.
--- Do these things or ASK our SRK/Politicians/Business Tycoons to do -----
When I say education, you can not just isolate it from mother tree. It is root of the tree... all the branches grow from there...
Like you said give education for those 30 children born from today and come back after 20 years.. see how their lives would be different for better then those 30 unfortunate children who are unable to have education.
Give education for an entire generation of kids for 20 years....and let them figure out their problems...don't just feed them, don't just build homes for them...don't need to solve the problems for them.. let them figure out... that is what going on in USA.
You can not tie INDIA and USA together.... all you are doing is comparing apples to oranges... don't do that...India needs to learn sooooo many things from countries like USA... not comparing to them.
If you think Memo is illegal why can't you file a lawsuit. That should be right way. But I did not see any suggestion from any lawyer. But when when July 2007 issue cropped most lawyers rushed to file lawsuit. Now no one even suggesting lawsuit except some members in IV. Either most are not interested or they think no legal basis to contest memo
I have been observing JoeF's posts from different threads. I can say for sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is just another sadistic person like snram4 on this forum.
For instance JoeF says "he saw it coming" in reference to this memo. But the fact is, this memo is ILLEGAL. It has no legal base. Please refer to Murthy's latest newsletter. However members on murthy forum as well as you spicy_guy, thinks that JoeF is "knowledgeable". I am surprised to see that people who are here in this country for long believes all the BS that JoeF says.
I have been observing JoeF's posts from different threads. I can say for sure he doesn't know what he is talking about. He is just another sadistic person like snram4 on this forum.
For instance JoeF says "he saw it coming" in reference to this memo. But the fact is, this memo is ILLEGAL. It has no legal base. Please refer to Murthy's latest newsletter. However members on murthy forum as well as you spicy_guy, thinks that JoeF is "knowledgeable". I am surprised to see that people who are here in this country for long believes all the BS that JoeF says.
What you have mentioned is the only good thing Mr. Backstabbing Naidu did. rest of AP is like Hell except Hyd... Govt employees pensions on the
Timberlake,
I am not denying that during CBN�s tenure there was no corruption. You pointed out that there were some developments, like software industry.
But for you, any politician is a politician and you can live corruption. My picking on YSR does not mean I support CBN.
What YSR did, from a common man�s perspective: I am benefited, why should I care how the rest of the world, AP and India goes? But he doesn�t realize that, once he comes out his house, it�s all corruption, killings, land grabbing.
Yes, allocation of lands for SEZ�s was started by CBN and YSR gave it a new color by inc fictitious corporations and started getting free land in the name of those SEZ�s everywhere in AP.
Timberlake,
I am not denying that during CBN�s tenure there was no corruption. You pointed out that there were some developments, like software industry.
But for you, any politician is a politician and you can live corruption. My picking on YSR does not mean I support CBN.
What YSR did, from a common man�s perspective: I am benefited, why should I care how the rest of the world, AP and India goes? But he doesn�t realize that, once he comes out his house, it�s all corruption, killings, land grabbing.
Yes, allocation of lands for SEZ�s was started by CBN and YSR gave it a new color by inc fictitious corporations and started getting free land in the name of those SEZ�s everywhere in AP.
What happens when you loose your job on TN1 ? Do you get any time to look for another job ? Do you automatically convert to tourist visa or you need to leave and come back ?
Are the 3 and 10 yr bar reevant for Canadian nationals ?
Are the 3 and 10 yr bar reevant for Canadian nationals ?
2010 a map of Monaco on me so I
It is true that tamilians have high respect for their culture and identity so as everyone in the world. Even now the jews practice their culture and language here, are they getting discriminated for doing that? The problem arises when anyone is discriminated for some reasons.
Tamils in SL were not emigrated they were there for past 2000 years or so.
Just like the jews, tamils practice their culture and language in sri lanka without been discriminated. You don't see Jews armed with weapons asking for part of USA for themselves.
Tamils in SL were not emigrated they were there for past 2000 years or so.
Just like the jews, tamils practice their culture and language in sri lanka without been discriminated. You don't see Jews armed with weapons asking for part of USA for themselves.
I would like to see Plainspeak's project plan on his idea. The plan should detail out timeline, budget, manpower and responsibilities. Most importantly what will Plainspeak do in this plan as a responsibility.
Let us see if you can only write junk or can even post something useful.
Let us see if you can only write junk or can even post something useful.
hair La Porte De Monaco : Hotel
These Unused Family Based Visas are from 2007. These Unused Family Based Visas of 2007 would be added to the following year (2008) Employment Based Visas.
The Unused Family Based VISAS from a perticular fiscal year made available to the Employment Based VISAS of the Follwing Fiscal Year. And the Unused EB4 and EB5 VISAS of a perticular fiscal year would be made available to the same year's
EB1 category.
If I understand correctly, there is no mechanism for unused EB visas to spill over to the following year's EB, but the law allows unused FB visas to spill over to the following year's EB ?!
The Unused Family Based VISAS from a perticular fiscal year made available to the Employment Based VISAS of the Follwing Fiscal Year. And the Unused EB4 and EB5 VISAS of a perticular fiscal year would be made available to the same year's
EB1 category.
If I understand correctly, there is no mechanism for unused EB visas to spill over to the following year's EB, but the law allows unused FB visas to spill over to the following year's EB ?!
3. Your dedication is appreciated regarding immigration issues. Please don't go away. I see you as a valuable asset in group.
Do you mean to say, he is the comic relief in our grim and gritty journey towards GC?
Do you mean to say, he is the comic relief in our grim and gritty journey towards GC?
hot Le Mans – France
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/fraud_faqs_07-13-07.pdf
Specifically this provision applies to Cognizant
Willful provision or assistance in the provision of false or inaccurate information for an application for labor certification;
Yeah but EB1 does not even need labor certification. So you can't apply the willful misrepresentation. What we can apply willful misrepresentation is in the 140. Also since EB1 is current , these guys also apply 485 at the same time and get EAD and AP.
Specifically this provision applies to Cognizant
Willful provision or assistance in the provision of false or inaccurate information for an application for labor certification;
Yeah but EB1 does not even need labor certification. So you can't apply the willful misrepresentation. What we can apply willful misrepresentation is in the 140. Also since EB1 is current , these guys also apply 485 at the same time and get EAD and AP.
house Monaco map HD pictures
This is a good idea. I will send the emails.
tattoo Tour+de+france+map+2009
such people cut in line in front of us and don't even bother paying money to IV. Why should we give them free advice. If they can spend money buying labor for 20K they can spend hundred dollars and consult a lawyer and ask their question. It is with such mentaility they are brought up with in their country- Currption and getting things done with money. But never paying anyone for a just cause. In my country people contribute only when they fear god in temples, for medical treatment or to astrologers!!
At least on this forum we can have the resolve to fight such people who are hurting most of us.
Good that DOL/USCIS is getting rid of labor selling by voiding after 45 days
( in the final rule that might be raised a bit ...to 90days ...which is justified and reasonable)
At least on this forum we can have the resolve to fight such people who are hurting most of us.
Good that DOL/USCIS is getting rid of labor selling by voiding after 45 days
( in the final rule that might be raised a bit ...to 90days ...which is justified and reasonable)
pictures Cycling route map
huge move for EB3 ROw. it was expected I think.
dresses Monaco location map shows
A quarterly spill over is advantageous to every body in the playing field.
It is obviously good for retrogressed groups. It is even good for CIS, since they can plan their work properly and use up the visas in an orderly fashion.
So if IV can use some of its massive clout to convince DOS to do a quarterly spill over, that would be win-win for all.
Unfortunately we will have to wait until march and not december to find out if DOS is doing quarterly spillover because EB2 row already has more than 7000 pending 485, every quarter there are about 10000 Eb 2 visas, so technically there are already enough EB2 row 485 applications to use up the first quarter numbers.
offcourse there are only 4000 pending eb1 485 applications and assuming not more than a 1000 new eb1 applications are added to the list there would be 5000 visas that could be spilled over into eb2, the problem is we dont know
1. If DOS will do spillover every quarter
2. if by miracle they do spillover will it only in there respective categories i.e Eb2 row to to eb2 india\china, or accross categories eb1-row to Eb2 row to Eb2 India\china
These questions can only be answered by DOS. Hope DOS looks at what USCIS did and comes out with a Q&A of there own which explains if they are going to do a spillover every quarter or not. If not we will still be speculating to no end. Do we have to file another FOIA request to DOS to find out if they are going to do a spillover every quarter? I hope DOL also published a report every quarter like USCUS which contains the numnber of perm applications pending by month, year and country
It is obviously good for retrogressed groups. It is even good for CIS, since they can plan their work properly and use up the visas in an orderly fashion.
So if IV can use some of its massive clout to convince DOS to do a quarterly spill over, that would be win-win for all.
Unfortunately we will have to wait until march and not december to find out if DOS is doing quarterly spillover because EB2 row already has more than 7000 pending 485, every quarter there are about 10000 Eb 2 visas, so technically there are already enough EB2 row 485 applications to use up the first quarter numbers.
offcourse there are only 4000 pending eb1 485 applications and assuming not more than a 1000 new eb1 applications are added to the list there would be 5000 visas that could be spilled over into eb2, the problem is we dont know
1. If DOS will do spillover every quarter
2. if by miracle they do spillover will it only in there respective categories i.e Eb2 row to to eb2 india\china, or accross categories eb1-row to Eb2 row to Eb2 India\china
These questions can only be answered by DOS. Hope DOS looks at what USCIS did and comes out with a Q&A of there own which explains if they are going to do a spillover every quarter or not. If not we will still be speculating to no end. Do we have to file another FOIA request to DOS to find out if they are going to do a spillover every quarter? I hope DOL also published a report every quarter like USCUS which contains the numnber of perm applications pending by month, year and country
makeup K. Cannes, France: Stopped for
EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM :
PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ! WE ARE ALREADY STRESSED AS IT IS. WE DONT NEED ONE MORE RUMOR LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LOGIC TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, FOR GOD'S SAKE !
IF YOU ARE FEELING INSURED, HELPLESS AND WITH NO CONFIDENCE - JUST REMEMBER, ALMOST EVERYONE IS FEELING THE SAME. JUST DONT HIT THE PANIC BUTTON BASED ON NOTHING, PLEASE !
JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR LAWYER AND MAKE ALL THE DOCUMENTS READY TO FILE AS SOON AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO ! IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LET IT HAPPEN. NO NEED TO LIVE IT THRU TWICE, ONCE NOW AND ONCE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
PEACE.:mad:
PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ! WE ARE ALREADY STRESSED AS IT IS. WE DONT NEED ONE MORE RUMOR LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LOGIC TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, FOR GOD'S SAKE !
IF YOU ARE FEELING INSURED, HELPLESS AND WITH NO CONFIDENCE - JUST REMEMBER, ALMOST EVERYONE IS FEELING THE SAME. JUST DONT HIT THE PANIC BUTTON BASED ON NOTHING, PLEASE !
JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR LAWYER AND MAKE ALL THE DOCUMENTS READY TO FILE AS SOON AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO ! IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LET IT HAPPEN. NO NEED TO LIVE IT THRU TWICE, ONCE NOW AND ONCE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
PEACE.:mad:
girlfriend of France and Monaco.
Sir, first, not that I will listen to you, but you have no business telling anybody that IV doesn't need them, it's very serious when every disgruntled member decides to speak on others behalf and tell people who disagree with them they need to leave IV
second, do u have a crystal ball that allows you to know my feelings more than I do and put words in my mouth that i didn't say.. when i say that bodyshops participated in creating the disproportionate lines for india and china where do you get an insult or conclude that i want indians and chinese to disappear or that i feel i lack marketable skills..
stick to arguments please instead of these endless fabrications.
Did you not write in your post said that Indians and Chinese are flooding US via bodyshopping. DO read your earlier posts before writing back here.You can speak whatever but no one will listen to your racism and bigotry at least not here. U got problems with these Indians and Chinese go somewhere else and release your bigotry. You never answered my question about rally participation since you have been planted here by some anti-immigrant org for obvious reasons. Members like you are trying to divide IV based on race and there is no place for you here.So again I will say that get out of here if you have problems with race.
second, do u have a crystal ball that allows you to know my feelings more than I do and put words in my mouth that i didn't say.. when i say that bodyshops participated in creating the disproportionate lines for india and china where do you get an insult or conclude that i want indians and chinese to disappear or that i feel i lack marketable skills..
stick to arguments please instead of these endless fabrications.
Did you not write in your post said that Indians and Chinese are flooding US via bodyshopping. DO read your earlier posts before writing back here.You can speak whatever but no one will listen to your racism and bigotry at least not here. U got problems with these Indians and Chinese go somewhere else and release your bigotry. You never answered my question about rally participation since you have been planted here by some anti-immigrant org for obvious reasons. Members like you are trying to divide IV based on race and there is no place for you here.So again I will say that get out of here if you have problems with race.
hairstyles Summary middot; Location amp; Map
proengineer why did you create a new profile to post this?
Why are you marketing a lawyer?
Why are you marketing a lawyer?
Is it accurate to say that new way of allocating spill over visas effectively acheive same effect as eliminiating country limits?
I suppose the new way of allocation has similar effect to eliminating country limits within a category i.e. EB1 or EB2 or EB3 but not across the board
I suppose the new way of allocation has similar effect to eliminating country limits within a category i.e. EB1 or EB2 or EB3 but not across the board
i am not convinced u lost 20k in it? my roommate was a quikster guy, he never forced anyone., he would receive all this Junk stuff to sell, after 1 year he said enough and stopped, i dont think its madatory to buy stuff, its all about the new member add and comissions with it that prompts them to catch new desis.
For good sake desis, dont get your wifes and Kids involved in it, i ,met a desi in Target and asked him, dont u feel annoyed getting turned down with rude behaviours, ( he was with wife trying to get me to buy)
he said NO? WHY? after all its all about Money? hear it
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
Now, off course no one puts a gun to your head to buy 300PV but the pressure is nothing less than that. Its very hard to explain just like hard to explain the Niagara Falls experience (this example I have used many times while contacting people).
Now comes the suckiest part - Tapes, Books, Meetings, Conferences.
Each year there are 4 "conferences" over 4 different weekends. Each ticket costs about $125 and the hotel costs another $150. For a couple it comes to $6,400 for 4 years
Every week there is a "Open" meeting which costs $4 per person so for a couple it amounts to $1,664 for 4 years
You "have" to buy (again the pressure) 5 CDs ($8.50 each) and 2 books (~$20 each) every month. This amounts to another $4,000.
Now since it is a pyramid kind of structure, you will not have your entire team in one location or region. We had driven to "help" our group from MN to NY and PA, and MI at least 6-8 times and within northwest at least 20-25 times. This at least amounts to another $4,000
finally, you are "encouraged" to provide samples to new contacts, new team members so that they get hooked up to "Amway" products. Another $2,000.
So I am sure we lost much more than 20K just in hard cash without even counting the opportunity cost of all that time wasted. To be fair though, we are still receiving monthly bonus checks 3 years later which range from $100 to $300 depending on how much stuff is bought by the people who were in our group and who are still buying Amway products.
I don't know why I am explaining all this to you but I know many people who have never been in Amway think that you can not lose money in Amway. In fact it is totally opposite, you can lose your shirt in this "business"..
For good sake desis, dont get your wifes and Kids involved in it, i ,met a desi in Target and asked him, dont u feel annoyed getting turned down with rude behaviours, ( he was with wife trying to get me to buy)
he said NO? WHY? after all its all about Money? hear it
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
Now, off course no one puts a gun to your head to buy 300PV but the pressure is nothing less than that. Its very hard to explain just like hard to explain the Niagara Falls experience (this example I have used many times while contacting people).
Now comes the suckiest part - Tapes, Books, Meetings, Conferences.
Each year there are 4 "conferences" over 4 different weekends. Each ticket costs about $125 and the hotel costs another $150. For a couple it comes to $6,400 for 4 years
Every week there is a "Open" meeting which costs $4 per person so for a couple it amounts to $1,664 for 4 years
You "have" to buy (again the pressure) 5 CDs ($8.50 each) and 2 books (~$20 each) every month. This amounts to another $4,000.
Now since it is a pyramid kind of structure, you will not have your entire team in one location or region. We had driven to "help" our group from MN to NY and PA, and MI at least 6-8 times and within northwest at least 20-25 times. This at least amounts to another $4,000
finally, you are "encouraged" to provide samples to new contacts, new team members so that they get hooked up to "Amway" products. Another $2,000.
So I am sure we lost much more than 20K just in hard cash without even counting the opportunity cost of all that time wasted. To be fair though, we are still receiving monthly bonus checks 3 years later which range from $100 to $300 depending on how much stuff is bought by the people who were in our group and who are still buying Amway products.
I don't know why I am explaining all this to you but I know many people who have never been in Amway think that you can not lose money in Amway. In fact it is totally opposite, you can lose your shirt in this "business"..
