Belmontboy ..Thanks for the same ..as I said earlier any campaign should highlight the positive aspects of legal immigration ..fighting over EB1 misuse is not going to help. I am a prospective home buyer and in the last few months, I met 8 buyer / seller agents ..they are literally sweating for any business ...at the very least let us show the positive contribution that immigrants have for the housing and other related economy (which is massive in terms of $$$$$). I am sure everyone will agree that this is better than fighting over EB1 misuse and fighting amongst ourselves
1. If there are half a million people stuck in the immigration system, atleast half of them would be Mr. Hiralal-types whose buying potential could be between 150K$ to 250K$. That's an average of 50 Billion $s
2. If Mr. Hiralal-types bought a house today, that would dry out the foreclosure inventories for precisely one month. If all the EB immigrants were to buy a home, that would stem help for two months at the current supply rate of homes piling to the inventory.
How would the policy-makers look at these numbers?
Let's keep Hiralal's point as one of the several reasons for pushing for reform. But, the broader perspective is to reform the way the Govt. processes immigrant application. We should strive for permanent solutions - removing of country quota and make it true capitalist nature - let supply and demand dictate who can get in and how many can get in. If diversity is the reasoning for country quota, then India should be given 25 times 7 which is 175% because we are 25 counties put in one.
Economic situations and foreclosures are all fleeting effects. While we can leverage on these facts our argument for reform should not be based on variants.
1. If there are half a million people stuck in the immigration system, atleast half of them would be Mr. Hiralal-types whose buying potential could be between 150K$ to 250K$. That's an average of 50 Billion $s
2. If Mr. Hiralal-types bought a house today, that would dry out the foreclosure inventories for precisely one month. If all the EB immigrants were to buy a home, that would stem help for two months at the current supply rate of homes piling to the inventory.
How would the policy-makers look at these numbers?
Let's keep Hiralal's point as one of the several reasons for pushing for reform. But, the broader perspective is to reform the way the Govt. processes immigrant application. We should strive for permanent solutions - removing of country quota and make it true capitalist nature - let supply and demand dictate who can get in and how many can get in. If diversity is the reasoning for country quota, then India should be given 25 times 7 which is 175% because we are 25 counties put in one.
Economic situations and foreclosures are all fleeting effects. While we can leverage on these facts our argument for reform should not be based on variants.
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Page 5 says that if the petitioner is a software developmentt company; where the beneficiary is placed at a client on a long term basis, but using the designs or developing an application of the petitioning company; and the beneficiary reports weekly to a manager of the software development company.
This might work for large IT companies who develop entire software solutions and who might staff an entire project for a client on a own. But others who are only staffing companies; even if they are large may not be able to show the required control.
This might work for large IT companies who develop entire software solutions and who might staff an entire project for a client on a own. But others who are only staffing companies; even if they are large may not be able to show the required control.
Oh oh oh....
We have a situation here.
:D
You Idiot,
When you keep updating this thread it keeps coming on top.
I ignored it for a few days and finally clicked to see what the Fuck is going on here.
Now it seems even moderators are joining this madness.
If infighting keeps continuing on this forum and you keep discussing non-immigration related topics here, you will never get your green card. FOCUS!
It is strange that you all want green card so that you live in USA but pretend to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO concerned about Prime Minister of India and then start blaming each other..
No wonder NumbersUSA etc are succeding..
Pappu,
Please remove my profile and user ID from the system. I can't be part of these morons. I shall get my GC when I shall have to get it. I am not here to discuss non-GC related issues. There are many more forums to do that.
We have a situation here.
:D
You Idiot,
When you keep updating this thread it keeps coming on top.
I ignored it for a few days and finally clicked to see what the Fuck is going on here.
Now it seems even moderators are joining this madness.
If infighting keeps continuing on this forum and you keep discussing non-immigration related topics here, you will never get your green card. FOCUS!
It is strange that you all want green card so that you live in USA but pretend to be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO concerned about Prime Minister of India and then start blaming each other..
No wonder NumbersUSA etc are succeding..
Pappu,
Please remove my profile and user ID from the system. I can't be part of these morons. I shall get my GC when I shall have to get it. I am not here to discuss non-GC related issues. There are many more forums to do that.
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I am talking from a broad perspective, not IV's goals.
IV never had a goal of asking for a points-based canadian model of EB immigration or asking for self-petition system where EB applicants apply for greencards independent of employer. Even if we want and ask for it, it would never happen - for the very reasons I mentioned above. Firstly it would oversupply the workforce with people who may or may not fill jobs and secondly the protection of native-born cannot be achieved without employer-petition that involved labor cert.
So politically, its almost impossible to get rid of employer-petition for all EB applicants. Maybe STEM/PH.D etc candidates will get a shot at such a provision in near future, but not everyone.
And like I said, the current system has its problems but point-based self petition is not the answer. And we are not singing a new tune. We are working hard beyond our capacities to get the same amendments introduced again that were introduced on April 7th by Senators Brownback, Alexander and Bingaman.
IV never had a goal of asking for a points-based canadian model of EB immigration or asking for self-petition system where EB applicants apply for greencards independent of employer. Even if we want and ask for it, it would never happen - for the very reasons I mentioned above. Firstly it would oversupply the workforce with people who may or may not fill jobs and secondly the protection of native-born cannot be achieved without employer-petition that involved labor cert.
So politically, its almost impossible to get rid of employer-petition for all EB applicants. Maybe STEM/PH.D etc candidates will get a shot at such a provision in near future, but not everyone.
And like I said, the current system has its problems but point-based self petition is not the answer. And we are not singing a new tune. We are working hard beyond our capacities to get the same amendments introduced again that were introduced on April 7th by Senators Brownback, Alexander and Bingaman.
IV admins, Chandu,
Please delete this thread or move this away from the main page.
This thread is a good fodder for antis.
Please delete this thread or move this away from the main page.
This thread is a good fodder for antis.
Plainspeak.
You have the right to an opinion, after all this is a free country. You have expressed it and some people may not like it. Just care less for them.
But most importantly you need to understand that IV has the immigrant community best interests in mind. After all these are regular folks just like you and me who are doing this voluntarily....and we are reaping the benefits of it.
But again you may have a different idea or opinion which is always welcome for debate. For example i do not support piecemeal legislation(DREAM act) but after hearing IV point of view thats the best shot we have right now. So it made sense to me.
Long story short....IV has our best interests in mind.
You have the right to an opinion, after all this is a free country. You have expressed it and some people may not like it. Just care less for them.
But most importantly you need to understand that IV has the immigrant community best interests in mind. After all these are regular folks just like you and me who are doing this voluntarily....and we are reaping the benefits of it.
But again you may have a different idea or opinion which is always welcome for debate. For example i do not support piecemeal legislation(DREAM act) but after hearing IV point of view thats the best shot we have right now. So it made sense to me.
Long story short....IV has our best interests in mind.
What you are talking here is the Eb1-EA category.. and not the general EB1 category..
The EB1 Category is primarily meant for inter company transfers. Most of the people who qualify to get GC under this category come to US through the inter company transfer route and are primarily on L1-A work visa. Folks under L1-A do not require a labor certification and directly file I-140 /485 unlike people who come on L1-b visa which is also inter company transfer and requires a person to file a labor certification in US and then file GC under Eb2 or Eb3 as the case may be.
It�s surprising that Eb1 is current for India. Going by the facts.. the top 3 IT companies had shipped most of their project folks infact every other person to US under L1-A in the last few years when H1-b was under scrutiny for these companies. Most of these people who came under L1-A should have applied for GC under Eb1 which should have retrogressed the dates for EB1 also. The only logical reason for this that these companies are being very selective in doing GC now unlike in the past when a lot of people had got GC under this category.. and the date for EB1 for India had retrogressed in beginning of 2006..
That apart the other reason why this category is current is that most of the staffing companies aka.. body shoppers cannot use this route to get people to US.. because they need to have full-fledged profitable operations overseas�. and the person being sponsored should have atleast worked for 365 days outside US for the company. The consulates do a complete check before giving an authorization under L1-A or L1-B category..
EB1-Multinational executives also mostly abused catagory. Due to this, the demand for EB1 is very much higer than EB2. See the statisctics 2005, DOS issed 66000 EB1 in 2005 compare to 44000 EB2. If any one things multinational executives are MBA or highly skilled, it is completly wrong. EB1-Mexico is much much higher than EB2-Mexico. Top IT companies in India will not sponser any GC except one or two guys. Like L1 be a short cut for H1, EB1 is shortcut for EB3 & EB2 and to avoid LC. There may be restarunt managers got GC thro EB1. I know one guy got GC thro EB1-Multinational manager thro a small consulting firm having less employees in both India and USA.
The EB1 Category is primarily meant for inter company transfers. Most of the people who qualify to get GC under this category come to US through the inter company transfer route and are primarily on L1-A work visa. Folks under L1-A do not require a labor certification and directly file I-140 /485 unlike people who come on L1-b visa which is also inter company transfer and requires a person to file a labor certification in US and then file GC under Eb2 or Eb3 as the case may be.
It�s surprising that Eb1 is current for India. Going by the facts.. the top 3 IT companies had shipped most of their project folks infact every other person to US under L1-A in the last few years when H1-b was under scrutiny for these companies. Most of these people who came under L1-A should have applied for GC under Eb1 which should have retrogressed the dates for EB1 also. The only logical reason for this that these companies are being very selective in doing GC now unlike in the past when a lot of people had got GC under this category.. and the date for EB1 for India had retrogressed in beginning of 2006..
That apart the other reason why this category is current is that most of the staffing companies aka.. body shoppers cannot use this route to get people to US.. because they need to have full-fledged profitable operations overseas�. and the person being sponsored should have atleast worked for 365 days outside US for the company. The consulates do a complete check before giving an authorization under L1-A or L1-B category..
EB1-Multinational executives also mostly abused catagory. Due to this, the demand for EB1 is very much higer than EB2. See the statisctics 2005, DOS issed 66000 EB1 in 2005 compare to 44000 EB2. If any one things multinational executives are MBA or highly skilled, it is completly wrong. EB1-Mexico is much much higher than EB2-Mexico. Top IT companies in India will not sponser any GC except one or two guys. Like L1 be a short cut for H1, EB1 is shortcut for EB3 & EB2 and to avoid LC. There may be restarunt managers got GC thro EB1. I know one guy got GC thro EB1-Multinational manager thro a small consulting firm having less employees in both India and USA.
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OK breddy I searched in youtube. I see chandu is from vijayawada. Now I know why he is talking crap on YS Rajashekar Reddy.
(BTW, I don't believe in castism, I don't have any caste)
None of you have single point against the fact that YSR was a “gunda, a land grabber, political killer who amassed huge amounts of illegal wealth and land, never ever seen in the history of AP?” and still you don’t want to accept that he was a gunda.
Shame on you educated idiots, get a life. Every one here has seen chanduv23's postings and how balanced his views are, except you fanatic followers of YSR. Every one here agrees to fact that YSR is a gunda, except you guys.
Look at this links and people comments: More ‘eulogy’ on YSR � Janamejayan’s Weblog (http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/more-eulogy-on-ysr/)
Finally god saved the AP. He made lot of money by corruption. He never bothered about AP future. He concentrated only to keep power in hand and destroy the opposition parties (mainly TDP, PRP, TRS, CPI/CPM).
(BTW, I don't believe in castism, I don't have any caste)
None of you have single point against the fact that YSR was a “gunda, a land grabber, political killer who amassed huge amounts of illegal wealth and land, never ever seen in the history of AP?” and still you don’t want to accept that he was a gunda.
Shame on you educated idiots, get a life. Every one here has seen chanduv23's postings and how balanced his views are, except you fanatic followers of YSR. Every one here agrees to fact that YSR is a gunda, except you guys.
Look at this links and people comments: More ‘eulogy’ on YSR � Janamejayan’s Weblog (http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/more-eulogy-on-ysr/)
Finally god saved the AP. He made lot of money by corruption. He never bothered about AP future. He concentrated only to keep power in hand and destroy the opposition parties (mainly TDP, PRP, TRS, CPI/CPM).
Nobody is misguiding anyone. Talk to your lawyer and find out. Amway doesn't offer you employment.
What you get is 1099-MISC the same you get for your stocks and investments. Talk to your lawyer and find out.
It is correct that Amway doesn't offer employment, but the Amway activities are self-employment activities and therefore are under review for valid and authorized employment.
Only US residents, who are authorized for self-employment, can run their business or home based business activities.
Can someone on H-4 visa status can run Amway baed home business? Yes/No. I know you will say "check with your accountant/lawyer" line knowing well H-4 can not be self-employed.
______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin
What you get is 1099-MISC the same you get for your stocks and investments. Talk to your lawyer and find out.
It is correct that Amway doesn't offer employment, but the Amway activities are self-employment activities and therefore are under review for valid and authorized employment.
Only US residents, who are authorized for self-employment, can run their business or home based business activities.
Can someone on H-4 visa status can run Amway baed home business? Yes/No. I know you will say "check with your accountant/lawyer" line knowing well H-4 can not be self-employed.
______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin
hair planking death images. 2011 Think of the digi-video planking death video.
-TrueFacts have atleast four diffrent ID's.
I have got 4 red dots from his avatars.
I have my GC on my wallet, so I don't care about any other GREENS.
And right on.... Never expected such a behaviour from a noted Senior member.....
Personally I do not care if I get "Reds" or "Greens" as it is not going to give me GC for what I'm here for.....
I have got 4 red dots from his avatars.
I have my GC on my wallet, so I don't care about any other GREENS.
And right on.... Never expected such a behaviour from a noted Senior member.....
Personally I do not care if I get "Reds" or "Greens" as it is not going to give me GC for what I'm here for.....
and yes my friend tinyhk12
:d lmao
:d lmao
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Please keep sending those emails. IV is nothing but I + WE
Those of you who have homes and think this is unfair to you, I can understand your vantage point of being excluded. But there is a clear indirect consequence of such a legislation. I would say, Who ever bought the home bought the home with an intention of making US their permanent home. Some one else would say, I know guys who bought 2 homes. Its all greed and nothing else. So lets not go there.
None of them knew that FNM & FRE will be gobbled up by Fed, Lehman will go under after 158 years, AIG will be owned 80% by the gov and ML would be sucked up for peanuts. If they had a slightest inkling they would not have bought a home.
The problem is we have a glut of homes on the market. There are a bunch of people who can invest but do not want to because of the uncertainty they are facing. No doubt every one has uncertainty. Imagine a law maker's perspective (not mine or IV's) on exempting some one from the numerical limits, if he/she does not help reduce the number of houses by 1. All that matters at the negotiating table is whether this helps the housing markets or not.
As some one said, this is not the senate/house floor. If such legislation were to be enacted congress will design a lot of preconditions to be met. (legal and financial) We cannot dilute the message to start with. There was a good amount of discussion about this "already own a home" issue before the whole thing appeared on the website. Its in our best interest we start from here.
Its easy to sit down here and write what is fair and what is unfair. What really matters in the end is whether we can sell our pitch and make it palatable to lawmakers. Please stop enumerating all the unfair events in the EB immigration process. It just does not get any where.
If you don't like the idea thats fine. But please refrain from posting nasty and dirty comments on my profile. Not that I care about reputation, The usage of such words is totally unasked for.
Those of you who have homes and think this is unfair to you, I can understand your vantage point of being excluded. But there is a clear indirect consequence of such a legislation. I would say, Who ever bought the home bought the home with an intention of making US their permanent home. Some one else would say, I know guys who bought 2 homes. Its all greed and nothing else. So lets not go there.
None of them knew that FNM & FRE will be gobbled up by Fed, Lehman will go under after 158 years, AIG will be owned 80% by the gov and ML would be sucked up for peanuts. If they had a slightest inkling they would not have bought a home.
The problem is we have a glut of homes on the market. There are a bunch of people who can invest but do not want to because of the uncertainty they are facing. No doubt every one has uncertainty. Imagine a law maker's perspective (not mine or IV's) on exempting some one from the numerical limits, if he/she does not help reduce the number of houses by 1. All that matters at the negotiating table is whether this helps the housing markets or not.
As some one said, this is not the senate/house floor. If such legislation were to be enacted congress will design a lot of preconditions to be met. (legal and financial) We cannot dilute the message to start with. There was a good amount of discussion about this "already own a home" issue before the whole thing appeared on the website. Its in our best interest we start from here.
Its easy to sit down here and write what is fair and what is unfair. What really matters in the end is whether we can sell our pitch and make it palatable to lawmakers. Please stop enumerating all the unfair events in the EB immigration process. It just does not get any where.
If you don't like the idea thats fine. But please refrain from posting nasty and dirty comments on my profile. Not that I care about reputation, The usage of such words is totally unasked for.
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I think this is a requirement from US government that countries that need a SSA agreement with US needs to have a Social Security system. Asking our SSA and Medicare back is a good strategy which will benefit us one way or other....
.
With SSA agreements with other countries, money is not returned to you if/when you leave the US. Contributions you made for similar programs while working in other contries are collectively considered to decide your final benefit at retirement. Having no parallel plan in India it is difficult to have such an arrangment with them.
Stronger argument would be, why should a guest worker contribute to SSA/Medicare when those programs are for permanent residents/citizens hoping to retire in the US. It should be payable only after getting GC. Of course, in that case, your benefits at retirement would also be lower. Note that your employer also makes an equal contributions to these plans.
Most of you may already know but let me restate, if you work in the US for 10 yrs, you will get SSA at retirement, no matter if you have GC or not or where you live. There are some exceptions but they don't apply to India/China citizens living in their home countries.
.
With SSA agreements with other countries, money is not returned to you if/when you leave the US. Contributions you made for similar programs while working in other contries are collectively considered to decide your final benefit at retirement. Having no parallel plan in India it is difficult to have such an arrangment with them.
Stronger argument would be, why should a guest worker contribute to SSA/Medicare when those programs are for permanent residents/citizens hoping to retire in the US. It should be payable only after getting GC. Of course, in that case, your benefits at retirement would also be lower. Note that your employer also makes an equal contributions to these plans.
Most of you may already know but let me restate, if you work in the US for 10 yrs, you will get SSA at retirement, no matter if you have GC or not or where you live. There are some exceptions but they don't apply to India/China citizens living in their home countries.
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Just Digged all 3 links posted by Tikka
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You are welcome Dyana. Also if you search this forum, you might be able to find lots of threads on filing 485, doing medicals etc from last June/July/August. These topics were beaten to death on this forum last year when a whole bunch of us filed 485. Good luck!
Thank U all for your quick answers&good advice.It feels good to know I have new friends who can help me with my questions.
About the cheques u're right, that's how we have done it. Separate personnal cheques for each of us, easy to track online.
Hopefully we are not out-of-status and my husband's employer is not on th black list.
How couldn't I figure it out by myself what IV means????Shame,shame...
Thank U all for your quick answers&good advice.It feels good to know I have new friends who can help me with my questions.
About the cheques u're right, that's how we have done it. Separate personnal cheques for each of us, easy to track online.
Hopefully we are not out-of-status and my husband's employer is not on th black list.
How couldn't I figure it out by myself what IV means????Shame,shame...
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What an irony my friend. I'm arguing for people like you...who can afford to buy a home in this economy and you arguing for people(bodies in your "not every body") like me who cannot afford. Thank you for your concern, but I think it is a very good idea.
:D
What a Twister !!!
Jayleno,
You are not really interested in helping, otherwise you would have bought a house and put economy back on track. But you are taking advantage of the current situation. My point is not every body has money at present in hand to buy a house. Every body likes to spend their money and settle down here, otherwise no body would have applied for green card. This plan is proposed all of the sudden and it is not fair. If i consider people, who lost jobs because of this worst market, you are twisting the story by talking prevailing wages and illegal status. FYI, I have potential to buy a home here and currently working and making enough money here. I request you answer the question only, not twist.
aps
:D
What a Twister !!!
Jayleno,
You are not really interested in helping, otherwise you would have bought a house and put economy back on track. But you are taking advantage of the current situation. My point is not every body has money at present in hand to buy a house. Every body likes to spend their money and settle down here, otherwise no body would have applied for green card. This plan is proposed all of the sudden and it is not fair. If i consider people, who lost jobs because of this worst market, you are twisting the story by talking prevailing wages and illegal status. FYI, I have potential to buy a home here and currently working and making enough money here. I request you answer the question only, not twist.
aps
makeup Example of extreme planking
You moron coming from the slum region or any other place in Bihar.
You don't know about keralites.
100% Literacy.
Living standard is same like Europe. (no other state have the facilities such as health care and standard of living like Kerala).
It is God's own country.
Visit and see the details.
Even the guys working in Gulf countries knows better than you and making much more than you. Go and see their houses.(multi storied), You are still in an appartment.
Do you ????
You are _TrueFacts aka poorslumdog aka insider
You are also here Mr.dealsnet...again I am telling you, use your peanut size brain if you have one. I heard Keral people good only for tea shop or Gulf. what are you doing here. You started your tea shop here. Do you sell medu vada also?
You don't know about keralites.
100% Literacy.
Living standard is same like Europe. (no other state have the facilities such as health care and standard of living like Kerala).
It is God's own country.
Visit and see the details.
Even the guys working in Gulf countries knows better than you and making much more than you. Go and see their houses.(multi storied), You are still in an appartment.
Do you ????
You are _TrueFacts aka poorslumdog aka insider
You are also here Mr.dealsnet...again I am telling you, use your peanut size brain if you have one. I heard Keral people good only for tea shop or Gulf. what are you doing here. You started your tea shop here. Do you sell medu vada also?
girlfriend Planking has taken Australia
Let's do it
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I think the folks who decided to file on their own are clearly the winners here because they have complete control over when the AOS gets filed. Folks like me who decided to go with the company law firm are clearly the biggest losers here because with all the added work load, the law firms are in complete disarray and can not guarantee anything about when the cases will be filed. The company law firm I am dealing with is in so much disarray that they have stopped taking phone calls and they wouldn’t even talk to me on the phone.
I have submitted all documents and filled out all their forms a while ago and I still haven't heard a word from them about whether they have received all the documents and when do they expect to file my case. Yet this is the law firm that probably charges 400 bucks an hour.
Like logiclife said, I wish I would have done it myself. Well .. too late now :(
I suggest that you do this: Send the URL from AILA's memo about what happened to EB3-other worker category in June. And copy your HR and senior folks of your company when you email lawyer. That will tend to focus the attention of your lawfirm and they will either have to say "We will file asap" or they will have to say "AILA's memo doesnt mean anything".
I bet they will come back with the former conclusion.
Apparently, these lawyers have been too conditioned to work 30 hours per week and now, having to work 60 hours per week is too tough. NEWSFLASH LAWYERS : We idiots in IT and software very often work long hours to meet project deadlines. Its a part of life. Get used to it or like I said before, find something else to do. Like basket weaving or poetry writing so that you dont have to see deadlines and dont have to burn midnight oil.
I have submitted all documents and filled out all their forms a while ago and I still haven't heard a word from them about whether they have received all the documents and when do they expect to file my case. Yet this is the law firm that probably charges 400 bucks an hour.
Like logiclife said, I wish I would have done it myself. Well .. too late now :(
I suggest that you do this: Send the URL from AILA's memo about what happened to EB3-other worker category in June. And copy your HR and senior folks of your company when you email lawyer. That will tend to focus the attention of your lawfirm and they will either have to say "We will file asap" or they will have to say "AILA's memo doesnt mean anything".
I bet they will come back with the former conclusion.
Apparently, these lawyers have been too conditioned to work 30 hours per week and now, having to work 60 hours per week is too tough. NEWSFLASH LAWYERS : We idiots in IT and software very often work long hours to meet project deadlines. Its a part of life. Get used to it or like I said before, find something else to do. Like basket weaving or poetry writing so that you dont have to see deadlines and dont have to burn midnight oil.
So why are you here in the first place? Why in US? Why applying for GC? Why on IV to try to improve this broken system? Face the fact, you too dont want to return or else you wouldnt be here.
There is no harm in being selfish and persuing a better life. "Do something good for India" is an ideal punch line for preachers. BUT Be realistic.
Rongha_2000,
Hypothetically speaking let's say if USA decides not to take you in permanently what will you do?:D
There is no harm in being selfish and persuing a better life. "Do something good for India" is an ideal punch line for preachers. BUT Be realistic.
Rongha_2000,
Hypothetically speaking let's say if USA decides not to take you in permanently what will you do?:D
Just curious.
Does it mean a uncouth rowdy person?
Is it a Tamil word, or a Singhala word?
Arava stands for over pitched language loudness..
You are issuing some FATHWA on me LOL dude...??? Grow up..
Are you there when some some one used Gujju word here...???
Does it mean a uncouth rowdy person?
Is it a Tamil word, or a Singhala word?
Arava stands for over pitched language loudness..
You are issuing some FATHWA on me LOL dude...??? Grow up..
Are you there when some some one used Gujju word here...???
