I can use some help if I am missing some things here.
Snip from 202 a 5 (http://www.uscis.gov/propub/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=sethitdoc&doc_hit=1&doc_searchcontext=jump&s_context=jump&s_action=newSearch&s_method=applyFilter&s_fieldSearch=nxthomecollectionid|SLB&s_fieldSearch=foliodestination|act202a&s_type=all&hash=0-0-0-1435)
(A) EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS NOT SUBJECT TO PER COUNTRY LIMITATION IF ADDITIONAL VISAS AVAILABLE- If the total number of visas available under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of section 203(b) for a calendar quarter exceeds the number of qualified immigrants who may otherwise be issued such visas, the visas made available under that paragraph shall be issued without regard to the numerical limitation under paragraph (2) of this subsection during the remainder of the calendar quarter.
Paragraph in the above corresond to each category. So paragraph 1 is EB1. Paragraph 2 is EB2 and so on. So the translation is what the VB exactly said.
What does 203 (b) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 say?
Define EB1-EB5 categories. Find it here (http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/15?hilite=).
I posted the same Q on Ron Gotcher's forum this afternoon and my post did not go through to be moderated (I got the message that the post was submitted and will be posted after moderator approves it) or the mod chose not to post it.
Snip from 202 a 5 (http://www.uscis.gov/propub/template.htm?view=document&doc_action=sethitdoc&doc_hit=1&doc_searchcontext=jump&s_context=jump&s_action=newSearch&s_method=applyFilter&s_fieldSearch=nxthomecollectionid|SLB&s_fieldSearch=foliodestination|act202a&s_type=all&hash=0-0-0-1435)
(A) EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS NOT SUBJECT TO PER COUNTRY LIMITATION IF ADDITIONAL VISAS AVAILABLE- If the total number of visas available under paragraph (1), (2), (3), (4), or (5) of section 203(b) for a calendar quarter exceeds the number of qualified immigrants who may otherwise be issued such visas, the visas made available under that paragraph shall be issued without regard to the numerical limitation under paragraph (2) of this subsection during the remainder of the calendar quarter.
Paragraph in the above corresond to each category. So paragraph 1 is EB1. Paragraph 2 is EB2 and so on. So the translation is what the VB exactly said.
What does 203 (b) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 say?
Define EB1-EB5 categories. Find it here (http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/slbid/1/2/15?hilite=).
I posted the same Q on Ron Gotcher's forum this afternoon and my post did not go through to be moderated (I got the message that the post was submitted and will be posted after moderator approves it) or the mod chose not to post it.
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I dont think legally you can sue someone, because they have worked harder.
I posted this link , so that everybody may know the legal reasons, which we can present in a court of law.
If this lawsuit is accepted by the court , then the USCIS lawyers would tell what exactly happened.
I till now personally believe , that the USCIS/DOS hasnt broken any law.
They may have however changed a pettern,process , but no law has been broken.
It took them 6 months to consume 66K visas and then another 15 days to process another 66K.
It is reasonably safe to assume, either correct procedures were not followed in the past or were not followed in the last 2 weeks. Only a judge can order USCIS to elobarte on what processes were followed in the last 2 weeks (FBI name checks and security clearances skipped...etc. etc.)
They made people expend (or rather waste) millions of dollars in preparing the paperwork...and then changed the process abruptly on July 2nd..with no advance notice...they could have published a guidance in the July bulletin itself of this possibly happening, if not published a guidance sometime later...
There is no doubt, that the entire chain of events were premeditated...and the communication mix-up as claimed by Condoleezza Rice on TV was a deliberate one..
I doubt if this will all fly in court...they certainly owe the millions of wasted dollars and thousands of wasted hours in preparing the paperwork, back to the applicants/attornies...at the least...
Keep in mind, the AILF rarely files a law suit against the government, and most of their law suits have had favorable outcomes..
I posted this link , so that everybody may know the legal reasons, which we can present in a court of law.
If this lawsuit is accepted by the court , then the USCIS lawyers would tell what exactly happened.
I till now personally believe , that the USCIS/DOS hasnt broken any law.
They may have however changed a pettern,process , but no law has been broken.
It took them 6 months to consume 66K visas and then another 15 days to process another 66K.
It is reasonably safe to assume, either correct procedures were not followed in the past or were not followed in the last 2 weeks. Only a judge can order USCIS to elobarte on what processes were followed in the last 2 weeks (FBI name checks and security clearances skipped...etc. etc.)
They made people expend (or rather waste) millions of dollars in preparing the paperwork...and then changed the process abruptly on July 2nd..with no advance notice...they could have published a guidance in the July bulletin itself of this possibly happening, if not published a guidance sometime later...
There is no doubt, that the entire chain of events were premeditated...and the communication mix-up as claimed by Condoleezza Rice on TV was a deliberate one..
I doubt if this will all fly in court...they certainly owe the millions of wasted dollars and thousands of wasted hours in preparing the paperwork, back to the applicants/attornies...at the least...
Keep in mind, the AILF rarely files a law suit against the government, and most of their law suits have had favorable outcomes..
he cant act on immigration when the economy is down and ppl are losing their jobs..so we are in a sinking boat...
better to wait and watch!!!
If we are in sinking boat then lets sink rather than try to survive.
Guy is telling lets try to survive. Lets try.... Its far from success but towards it.
better to wait and watch!!!
If we are in sinking boat then lets sink rather than try to survive.
Guy is telling lets try to survive. Lets try.... Its far from success but towards it.
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What ever stopped the people in MA/NY/NJ to board the buses stopped the people in DC/VA/MD to get on to the Metro train and come to the rally. Its not the distance, as it may seem to you and me, But Its the lack of will, lack of commitment.
If people think about San Jose rally and think it was a huge success, people showed up in 2 days yada yada.., there is a diff reason. Does it even need to be mentioned?
All that I can tell you guys is we did more than our best to get the locals to get to the rally. We can only call/email them or give flyers and let them notify. The final 6 days, our active members had stood out at every place they could and distributed flyers to 3000-3500 people. All the six weeks they have been doing spreading the word.
I hope your message was just expressing disappointment by the turn out an was not actually questioning the commitment of the people who worked on this.
No body please question the commitment.
About the reason only GOD knows.
Buses were arranged from MA to DC, Tri-state to DC.
Buses were fully funded by IV. We just requested ppl to hop on and fight for their own cause.
Ppl were given every single thing to their doorsteps. We made phone calls, ran email campaigns asking and requesting ppl to share thei questions/concerns. What we did, we did it to our best. Rest is up to the ppl how much badly a change they need.
So, i hope ur post was to show ur disppointment with the ppl who did not show up, but not to challenge the commitments of any of the volunteers.
GO IV GO
If people think about San Jose rally and think it was a huge success, people showed up in 2 days yada yada.., there is a diff reason. Does it even need to be mentioned?
All that I can tell you guys is we did more than our best to get the locals to get to the rally. We can only call/email them or give flyers and let them notify. The final 6 days, our active members had stood out at every place they could and distributed flyers to 3000-3500 people. All the six weeks they have been doing spreading the word.
I hope your message was just expressing disappointment by the turn out an was not actually questioning the commitment of the people who worked on this.
No body please question the commitment.
About the reason only GOD knows.
Buses were arranged from MA to DC, Tri-state to DC.
Buses were fully funded by IV. We just requested ppl to hop on and fight for their own cause.
Ppl were given every single thing to their doorsteps. We made phone calls, ran email campaigns asking and requesting ppl to share thei questions/concerns. What we did, we did it to our best. Rest is up to the ppl how much badly a change they need.
So, i hope ur post was to show ur disppointment with the ppl who did not show up, but not to challenge the commitments of any of the volunteers.
GO IV GO
The democrats will take the house by a very large majority and the senate by a less-than-60 vote majority. So if CIR makes a come back republicans will not be in a very strong position to strike a deal on high-skilled immigration. But there are a number of democrats who also support high-skilled immigration. People opposed to H1B and employment-based green card reforms are on both sides of the aisle (Dems Dick Durbin and Byron Dorgan, Republicans Jeff Sessions and Chuck Grassley for example) but hopefully they will remain a minority. It also looks like vocal supporters like Jon Cornyn will win re-election. But Pete Domenici is retiring. So, on the balance, there will be some change but not a drastic change on the legislative side.
Sen Obama is a very pragmatic and thoughtful person. You should know that he was co-sponsor of the PACE Act which, among other things, tried to create a F4 visa and make it very easy for STEM graduates to get green cards. There is absolutely no need to be panicked about a Obama win. Sen McCain, on the other hand, seems to have gone back on many of his immigration promises these last few months. It will be a concern if there is a democratic congress and McCain is in the White House.
Sen Obama is a very pragmatic and thoughtful person. You should know that he was co-sponsor of the PACE Act which, among other things, tried to create a F4 visa and make it very easy for STEM graduates to get green cards. There is absolutely no need to be panicked about a Obama win. Sen McCain, on the other hand, seems to have gone back on many of his immigration promises these last few months. It will be a concern if there is a democratic congress and McCain is in the White House.
I ask the doctor to treat me first but also make sure that my brother gets treatment too.It's just that for the past 15 days not one post reg people stuck in BEC's and one guy who started the thread of unfairness got bashed.Even then no announcement nothing from the core team.That's what bugs me.
I'm not trying to create a division.In fact I sympathise with everybody effected by VB ,all the money,effort,time that you have put in.I know I'll be next in line waiting to get in the roller coaster.I also know that core team is not answerable to anybody.
Peace..
Aries22...here is your answer from the core.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6084
If you are satisfied with the answer, I'll encourage you to bring other BECs brothers to join IV and contribute.
I'm not trying to create a division.In fact I sympathise with everybody effected by VB ,all the money,effort,time that you have put in.I know I'll be next in line waiting to get in the roller coaster.I also know that core team is not answerable to anybody.
Peace..
Aries22...here is your answer from the core.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6084
If you are satisfied with the answer, I'll encourage you to bring other BECs brothers to join IV and contribute.
$25 a month is reasonable. What people want it GC in $25 in less than 6 months. Somehow these same guys do not mind paying lawyers $700 for EAD filing which they could do themselves. In other words they trust lawyers who are clearly have a self interest in you not getting a GC but will not trust one of your kind because these guys think their crummy $25 is being flinched.
At least the money is put to some use and results are tangible, how about the results in here?
Refer to my posts.
IV core needs to explain!
At least the money is put to some use and results are tangible, how about the results in here?
Refer to my posts.
IV core needs to explain!
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The current case is over 50% of H-1B issued to Indian and Chinese every year. And that is why now most people here are waiting.
Do you think RoW H-1B applicants should shout loud and ask for the country limit to be set on H-1B?
That would be one way of preventing the creation of two different classes of skilled immigrant workers in the workforce. Please note that the distinction between these classes is not based on profession or skill level but based on country of birth.
It simply defies common sense that the quota is not enforced anywhere in the immigration pipeline except the I-485 approval. I would be more accepting of this policy if it were applied uniformly - while issuing student and work visas, PERM and I-140 applications along with the I-485 application.
Do you think RoW H-1B applicants should shout loud and ask for the country limit to be set on H-1B?
That would be one way of preventing the creation of two different classes of skilled immigrant workers in the workforce. Please note that the distinction between these classes is not based on profession or skill level but based on country of birth.
It simply defies common sense that the quota is not enforced anywhere in the immigration pipeline except the I-485 approval. I would be more accepting of this policy if it were applied uniformly - while issuing student and work visas, PERM and I-140 applications along with the I-485 application.
Is it possible they are trying to adjudicate my 485. I am EB2 India PD: JAN 2006.
When did u file your application for EAD renewal and which service center? I am not sure why you think EAD renewal triggered this I-485 RFE?
When did u file your application for EAD renewal and which service center? I am not sure why you think EAD renewal triggered this I-485 RFE?
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Citizenship? LOL... you made my day.
This is ridiculous; no one asked you to come to this country.
Nor are you entitled to anything besides what they chose to bestow.
Remember that.
Nor are you entitled to anything besides what they chose to bestow.
Remember that.
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There isn't a single fact that is true in this fax here. I don't know how groups like this get taken seriously if they don't even do basic research on what they are sending to congresspeople.
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
First, there is no such thing as anchor baby for H-1B workers. No legal H-1B worker in their right mind would ever try to immigrate in this way. H-1B workers are mostly stuck in the GC waiting game. Most of them are highly educated and will not sit and wait in illegal status for their child to grow up to sponsor them.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
This is another lie. H-1Bs pay all taxes. Also, they are not eligible to use social security benefits when they retire unless they've worked for at least
ten years in the US.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
Again, this statement is a lie. Changing jobs is risky and not many employers are willing to hire people on H-1B due to problems with immigration procedures and the broken immigration system (one of the reasons Microsoft also opened an office in Vancouver). Every time an H-1B changes their job, they have to get a new LABOR CERTIFICATION. This ensures that the new job will be in the "hard to fill" category!
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
Again another lie. The H-1B system is open to people of all nationalities and it is based on skills and education. None of the major ethnic groups or nationalities that use H-1B are "protected" under affirmative action programs. Most important, "affirmative action" does not apply to foreigners in the first place.
(1) The six-year visas allow foreign workers to bring in their families, and guarantee thousands of anchor babies.
First, there is no such thing as anchor baby for H-1B workers. No legal H-1B worker in their right mind would ever try to immigrate in this way. H-1B workers are mostly stuck in the GC waiting game. Most of them are highly educated and will not sit and wait in illegal status for their child to grow up to sponsor them.
(2) H-1B salaries are tax-exempt - no FICA, no federal or state income taxes. They can live at the same level as tax-paying Americans at a lower cost. Therefore, Congress allows foreigners to "low-ball" American workers.
This is another lie. H-1Bs pay all taxes. Also, they are not eligible to use social security benefits when they retire unless they've worked for at least
ten years in the US.
(3) H-1Bs can leave the job they came to fill and seek other jobs, not necessarily in the "hard to fill" category.
Again, this statement is a lie. Changing jobs is risky and not many employers are willing to hire people on H-1B due to problems with immigration procedures and the broken immigration system (one of the reasons Microsoft also opened an office in Vancouver). Every time an H-1B changes their job, they have to get a new LABOR CERTIFICATION. This ensures that the new job will be in the "hard to fill" category!
(4) Most H-1Bs are of a "protected" ethnic group, so H-1Bs have an affirmative action preference when competing with Americans for the same jobs.
Again another lie. The H-1B system is open to people of all nationalities and it is based on skills and education. None of the major ethnic groups or nationalities that use H-1B are "protected" under affirmative action programs. Most important, "affirmative action" does not apply to foreigners in the first place.
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carrying your gc is understandable, its just a card like your license.
But expecting folks to carry their immigration papers all the time, even when they haven't travelled abroad is a bit too much. As long as i have my license or state id with me, it should suffice.
This is just a classic case of harassing immigrants.
But expecting folks to carry their immigration papers all the time, even when they haven't travelled abroad is a bit too much. As long as i have my license or state id with me, it should suffice.
This is just a classic case of harassing immigrants.
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Just sent an email that the rally was to put forward the delays enforced by USCIS for the green cards and not for the H-1B cap increase. Gave the IV link to check for the rally facts.
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Thakur to gayo... (A Dialogue from hindi movie Karan Arjun)
but the good news is , since your I-140 was approved, your PD is locked and you may be able to use AC21
I filed for 485 during July 2007. My 140 was already approved. Due to some problems I quit my employer in August 2007. My previous employer was a desi blood sucker. I was fed up & decided to quit after working for him for 3 years. I applied for H1 transfer with a new employer based on approved 140. I got H1 approval for another 3 years. Currently I am working for the new H1 sponsoring employer. I also received an EAD card based on pending 485 for one year. I didnt notify USICS of job change in July.
I applied for EAD extension this year. The application for EAD extension is pending. I got a following RFE on my 485:
Please state whether or not you are currently working for your I-140 petitioner.
You must submit a currently dated letter from you permanent employer, describing your present job duties & position in the organization, your proferred position (if different from your current one), the date you began employement & the offered salary & wage. The letter must also indicate whether the terms & conditions of your employement based visa petition (or labor certification) continue to exist.
I am not in good terms with my previous employer so I cant ask him for a letter. I can ask my new employer for such a letter.
Will USCIS come to know I quite Employer A before completing 180 days?
Also is it possible that 140 was revoked by my previous employer?
What document should I send to USCIS now?
but the good news is , since your I-140 was approved, your PD is locked and you may be able to use AC21
I filed for 485 during July 2007. My 140 was already approved. Due to some problems I quit my employer in August 2007. My previous employer was a desi blood sucker. I was fed up & decided to quit after working for him for 3 years. I applied for H1 transfer with a new employer based on approved 140. I got H1 approval for another 3 years. Currently I am working for the new H1 sponsoring employer. I also received an EAD card based on pending 485 for one year. I didnt notify USICS of job change in July.
I applied for EAD extension this year. The application for EAD extension is pending. I got a following RFE on my 485:
Please state whether or not you are currently working for your I-140 petitioner.
You must submit a currently dated letter from you permanent employer, describing your present job duties & position in the organization, your proferred position (if different from your current one), the date you began employement & the offered salary & wage. The letter must also indicate whether the terms & conditions of your employement based visa petition (or labor certification) continue to exist.
I am not in good terms with my previous employer so I cant ask him for a letter. I can ask my new employer for such a letter.
Will USCIS come to know I quite Employer A before completing 180 days?
Also is it possible that 140 was revoked by my previous employer?
What document should I send to USCIS now?
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I am writing on original.But entries finished.Where should I write as I have 8entries instead of 6
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Yes this one is working for me...but iam also not sure its the right one or not.
This guy is speaking on some rivers , in vermont
This guy is speaking on some rivers , in vermont
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I have contributed to IV in faxes, phone calls and sending numerous letters. You can always check my history before analyzing from a blind eye. I have been here for a while, I have even spoken to a few IV core members.
Need my trust and money, please earn it.
so u'r sachbole - employee of that tracker site..... wonder y u hate iv......
u did not contribute to iv by sending faxes & making those phone calls.... u did that for u'rself...... u'r not doing me or anyone else a favor by sending faxes or making phone calls.....
no one needs u'r trust becoz u'r a paid employee of a business that is against each one of us getting green card...... if everyone will get gc then who will track their application.... meaning no ad revenue for u..... isn't that right? sachbole?
Need my trust and money, please earn it.
so u'r sachbole - employee of that tracker site..... wonder y u hate iv......
u did not contribute to iv by sending faxes & making those phone calls.... u did that for u'rself...... u'r not doing me or anyone else a favor by sending faxes or making phone calls.....
no one needs u'r trust becoz u'r a paid employee of a business that is against each one of us getting green card...... if everyone will get gc then who will track their application.... meaning no ad revenue for u..... isn't that right? sachbole?
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't see how the per country limit is unfair! It was set up so that immigrants from ALL nations would have EQUAL opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. and to prevent any one (or two) countries from monopolizing the visa numbers. Getting rid of the per country limit would most certainly lead to immigration from a limited number of sources (countries) and thus jeopardize the diversity of the immigration process. Getting rid of it would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul because those countries who are severely retrogressed now would only see limited benefits and those who are not all that retrogressed would fall backwards - is that fair!? It seems these forms are dominated by "certain" groups who have their own agenda and don't really care about ROW! It makes me feel uncomfortable being an IV member from ROW!
Whatever you are saying is true for Family based categories. Employement category is defined to have skilled immigrants to help US businesses, that is why it is called employment based category. Let me explain you what you are saying. You are saying that I will ask compnay A to wait for five years to give promotion to person X, because quotas for his country are not available, and until he gets his green card he can not get promotion, instead give promotion to person Y which is less qualified but can get green card next month since his country has quotas available. Now does it make sense for company A to give promotion to less qualified person just because person X can not get his green card? Company won't do that and will end up sponsoring another qualified person. Or let me explain you in different way. If certain company has need for specific skill for long term and provided that there are not enough citizens to do that job, in this case company has to sponsor an immigrant, but since the requirement is for long term, company doesn't want him to be on immigrant visa for long term because sponsoring immigrant visa means money and more liability. In this case, even though company has much better match from a country whose immigrant visa are not available for many years, company might end up taking immigrant who is less qualified for the job. And company might say that, we can not take you since you won't be able to get green card for many years. If company does that then it would be an discrimination, but company doesn't have any choice.
Initially, it would have been good idea to have country limits because nobody was anticipating this kind of backlogs. But in current situation it doesn't make sense to keep it like that way. Goverment understands it, but they don't want to do anything because this has become political issue because of groups which represent illegal immigrants. With time goverment and companies have to be practicle and change policies or laws. This has been happening and it should happen, particularly when it doesn't make sense. For goverment diversity is important but for company getting job done is more important. And primary purpose of EB category is to get things done.
Whatever you are saying is true for Family based categories. Employement category is defined to have skilled immigrants to help US businesses, that is why it is called employment based category. Let me explain you what you are saying. You are saying that I will ask compnay A to wait for five years to give promotion to person X, because quotas for his country are not available, and until he gets his green card he can not get promotion, instead give promotion to person Y which is less qualified but can get green card next month since his country has quotas available. Now does it make sense for company A to give promotion to less qualified person just because person X can not get his green card? Company won't do that and will end up sponsoring another qualified person. Or let me explain you in different way. If certain company has need for specific skill for long term and provided that there are not enough citizens to do that job, in this case company has to sponsor an immigrant, but since the requirement is for long term, company doesn't want him to be on immigrant visa for long term because sponsoring immigrant visa means money and more liability. In this case, even though company has much better match from a country whose immigrant visa are not available for many years, company might end up taking immigrant who is less qualified for the job. And company might say that, we can not take you since you won't be able to get green card for many years. If company does that then it would be an discrimination, but company doesn't have any choice.
Initially, it would have been good idea to have country limits because nobody was anticipating this kind of backlogs. But in current situation it doesn't make sense to keep it like that way. Goverment understands it, but they don't want to do anything because this has become political issue because of groups which represent illegal immigrants. With time goverment and companies have to be practicle and change policies or laws. This has been happening and it should happen, particularly when it doesn't make sense. For goverment diversity is important but for company getting job done is more important. And primary purpose of EB category is to get things done.
We received the 485 approval notices sent emails today
UMA001,
Your case may be sad and I understand your frustration but the fact that you joined the company ONLY FOR GC is itself ILLEGAL. You should have known this was coming. There is no legal standing for them to sponsor your GC without having a job for you (needing your services) AFTER you are granted GC.
This is simply the truth!
-Vivek
Mayhemt,
Please dont talk without knowing the truth.
I joined the company only for green card, I was a consultant for them before I became full time. They told me this 'We will sponsor green card, will you become full time' I said if you do green card I will join. But they did not keep their promise. Thatis give and take. They already gained from their investment, Thats y they dont want to sponsor anymore. They do green card for what we do for 6 years not for sticking with them for 20+ years.
if I was in my company shoes , I would not take the documents, drag for 2.5 years and say 'We found candidates' . I would have either said in 6 months sorry we cant do or file green card.One need to have honesty. If I am that smart likemy employer I would ve started a company already and firing H1 guys left n right
Your case may be sad and I understand your frustration but the fact that you joined the company ONLY FOR GC is itself ILLEGAL. You should have known this was coming. There is no legal standing for them to sponsor your GC without having a job for you (needing your services) AFTER you are granted GC.
This is simply the truth!
-Vivek
Mayhemt,
Please dont talk without knowing the truth.
I joined the company only for green card, I was a consultant for them before I became full time. They told me this 'We will sponsor green card, will you become full time' I said if you do green card I will join. But they did not keep their promise. Thatis give and take. They already gained from their investment, Thats y they dont want to sponsor anymore. They do green card for what we do for 6 years not for sticking with them for 20+ years.
if I was in my company shoes , I would not take the documents, drag for 2.5 years and say 'We found candidates' . I would have either said in 6 months sorry we cant do or file green card.One need to have honesty. If I am that smart likemy employer I would ve started a company already and firing H1 guys left n right
